Comments on: The Difference Between Difficult and Complicated http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/ J Wynia - Web Consultant, Writer and Geek Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:28:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: alexander http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-107643 alexander Fri, 23 Mar 2007 14:55:00 +0000 http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/24/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/#comment-107643 Great comments here! just would like to point out the interesting change in focus, gone from difficulty/complexity to weight loss! As to the former i'd like to say that recently a student of mine, after i had said "look, it's complicated but it's not difficult!", asked me to explain the difference and i had to ask for 24H to find the right words to get non-natives like them to understand. As to the latter, that is weight loss, i have the opposite problem, just can't put on weight unless i go to the gym five times a weeks. Problem: i walk about five miles a day (just routine activities, shopping, teaching, visiting friends...) and despite (everyday!) chocolate, two pizzas, bread, butter, sweat tea, biscuits, fat cheese, etc., i weigh just 110 pounds for 5ft6in. Used to be a professional cyclist and weighed 160 pounds. Want to lose weight and feel good at the same time? it's a matter of life-style, move to Europe (eastern Europe or maybe Paris, parisians are skinny too!). Great comments here! just would like to point out the interesting change in focus, gone from difficulty/complexity to weight loss! As to the former i'd like to say that recently a student of mine, after i had said "look, it's complicated but it's not difficult!", asked me to explain the difference and i had to ask for 24H to find the right words to get non-natives like them to understand.
As to the latter, that is weight loss, i have the opposite problem, just can't put on weight unless i go to the gym five times a weeks. Problem: i walk about five miles a day (just routine activities, shopping, teaching, visiting friends…) and despite (everyday!) chocolate, two pizzas, bread, butter, sweat tea, biscuits, fat cheese, etc., i weigh just 110 pounds for 5ft6in.
Used to be a professional cyclist and weighed 160 pounds. Want to lose weight and feel good at the same time? it's a matter of life-style, move to Europe (eastern Europe or maybe Paris, parisians are skinny too!).

]]> By: J Wynia http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-100054 J Wynia Thu, 08 Mar 2007 14:01:13 +0000 http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/24/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/#comment-100054 I've made the other point on weight loss in the past. I grew up farming and working outside, and moved on to jobs servicing computers across campus in college, always paid to be on the move. I could (and did) eat 4000-5000 calories a day and stayed skinny. I graduated from college and even though I cut out a couple thousand calories a day, it wasn't enough and I found myself weighing 300 pounds. Thanks on the loss. That's actually just since Christmas. I lost about 50 pounds and then stabilized for 9 months or so and began losing again in December. So, I'm actually down a total of about 65 pounds total. So, I completely understand the difficulty in losing weight. I also know how much of it just boils down to the difficulty of being hungry for 2 years and how people make it more complex than it needs to be, often to try to circumvent the difficulty. I've made the other point on weight loss in the past. I grew up farming and working outside, and moved on to jobs servicing computers across campus in college, always paid to be on the move. I could (and did) eat 4000-5000 calories a day and stayed skinny. I graduated from college and even though I cut out a couple thousand calories a day, it wasn't enough and I found myself weighing 300 pounds.

Thanks on the loss. That's actually just since Christmas. I lost about 50 pounds and then stabilized for 9 months or so and began losing again in December. So, I'm actually down a total of about 65 pounds total.

So, I completely understand the difficulty in losing weight. I also know how much of it just boils down to the difficulty of being hungry for 2 years and how people make it more complex than it needs to be, often to try to circumvent the difficulty.

]]> By: Robert Nagle http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-99996 Robert Nagle Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:31:55 +0000 http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/24/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/#comment-99996 BTW, I like the posting of the weight statistics. 17 pounds is impressive. Congratulations! BTW, I like the posting of the weight statistics. 17 pounds is impressive. Congratulations!

]]> By: Robert Nagle http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-99992 Robert Nagle Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:27:10 +0000 http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/24/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/#comment-99992 I know you are just trying to make a semantic point, while I'm trying to make a sociological one. If you have a geek cubicle job, chances are your risks of being overweight are higher than if you worked in construction, for example. When in Peace Corps I ate Snickers bars once or sometimes twice a day and stayed slim. That's because I walked 2 miles to work. Contrast that with now when I never eat Snickers bar and am constantly watching what I eat. And yet I still gain weight. (I live in Houston, the city with the highest percentage of people who are obese--a fact I blame on our urban design among other things). I don't mean to dismiss the importance of personal responsibility. But the question of why some people are overweight and others are not is a fascinating and complex question. I know you are just trying to make a semantic point, while I'm trying to make a sociological one.

If you have a geek cubicle job, chances are your risks of being overweight are higher than if you worked in construction, for example.

When in Peace Corps I ate Snickers bars once or sometimes twice a day and stayed slim. That's because I walked 2 miles to work. Contrast that with now when I never eat Snickers bar and am constantly watching what I eat. And yet I still gain weight.

(I live in Houston, the city with the highest percentage of people who are obese–a fact I blame on our urban design among other things).

I don't mean to dismiss the importance of personal responsibility. But the question of why some people are overweight and others are not is a fascinating and complex question.

]]> By: J Wynia http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-99859 J Wynia Thu, 08 Mar 2007 01:06:11 +0000 http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/24/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/#comment-99859 Losing weight can be accomplished by "just" not eating anything but bread and vitamins for 3 months. I'm not saying that's a good approach, but it's certainly *simple*. If you want to mitigate the difficulty, you can add complexity, which brings in much of your list. The core task itself is simple, but extremely difficult. We've added most of those complexities you mention because the difficulty is so high when you approach it at its simplest. We often do exactly this kind of thing by bridging some of the difficulty with complexity. Many of those points also are adding requirements to the original task, things which would have to be clarified to determine the real complexity. Does the weight loss have to be done while eating healthy foods or just lost at all costs? Does the weight loss need to be augmented with exercise? Does it have to be done efficiently, etc.? Losing weight can be accomplished by "just" not eating anything but bread and vitamins for 3 months. I'm not saying that's a good approach, but it's certainly *simple*.

If you want to mitigate the difficulty, you can add complexity, which brings in much of your list. The core task itself is simple, but extremely difficult. We've added most of those complexities you mention because the difficulty is so high when you approach it at its simplest.

We often do exactly this kind of thing by bridging some of the difficulty with complexity.

Many of those points also are adding requirements to the original task, things which would have to be clarified to determine the real complexity. Does the weight loss have to be done while eating healthy foods or just lost at all costs? Does the weight loss need to be augmented with exercise? Does it have to be done efficiently, etc.?

]]> By: Robert Nagle http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-99786 Robert Nagle Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:44:44 +0000 http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/24/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/#comment-99786 I agree overall with your point. But your difficult tasks can be complicated. Losing weight involves: 1)planning adequate exercise time 2)choosing a dwelling or work environment that favors a physically active lifestyle 3)having easy access to healthy food. 4)having the time to prepare high quality home-cooked meals. 5)having the attention span to constantly monitor your performance and progress 6)having access to information about the most efficient way to achieve the task. 7)having a job with a schedule that doesn't have too many long hours or time-pressure events that cause you to disregard your schedule 8)not having family commitments that prevent you from accomplishing the preceding 7 tasks. I agree overall with your point. But your difficult tasks can be complicated.

Losing weight involves:
1)planning adequate exercise time
2)choosing a dwelling or work environment that favors a physically active lifestyle
3)having easy access to healthy food.
4)having the time to prepare high quality home-cooked meals.
5)having the attention span to constantly monitor your performance and progress
6)having access to information about the most efficient way to achieve the task.
7)having a job with a schedule that doesn't have too many long hours or time-pressure events that cause you to disregard your schedule
8)not having family commitments that prevent you from accomplishing the preceding 7 tasks.

]]> By: Werner http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-99081 Werner Tue, 06 Mar 2007 07:14:47 +0000 http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/24/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/#comment-99081 Found these definitions which are, to me, a better description of the differences (found using google define:xyz). difficult: not easy; requiring great physical or mental effort to accomplish or comprehend or endure complicated: difficult to analyse or understand complex: complicated in structure; consisting of interconnected parts Found these definitions which are, to me, a better description of the differences (found using google define:xyz).

difficult: not easy; requiring great physical or mental effort to accomplish or comprehend or endure

complicated: difficult to analyse or understand

complex: complicated in structure; consisting of interconnected parts

]]> By: J Wynia http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-96901 J Wynia Wed, 28 Feb 2007 12:12:02 +0000 http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/24/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/#comment-96901 They are frequently related (hence "There are things that are *both*..."), but it became clear to me this week that people are using them *synonymously* and interchangeably. Some of the most difficult tasks around are difficult precisely because of their complexity. They are frequently related (hence "There are things that are *both*…"), but it became clear to me this week that people are using them *synonymously* and interchangeably.

Some of the most difficult tasks around are difficult precisely because of their complexity.

]]> By: Andre http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-96808 Andre Wed, 28 Feb 2007 04:37:45 +0000 http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/24/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/#comment-96808 Fair. Although the two words are related. Complex tasks often demand study, time and more than all, effort, which can increase the difficulty. But you are right, that's why complex tasks become easier with experience. Fair. Although the two words are related. Complex tasks often demand study, time and more than all, effort, which can increase the difficulty.

But you are right, that's why complex tasks become easier with experience.

]]> By: J Wynia http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-96470 J Wynia Tue, 27 Feb 2007 01:49:07 +0000 http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/24/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/#comment-96470 If the rendering problems were anything other than the cartoon logo not displaying properly, I might bother. I can tell you I'm going to fix it, but I can also guarantee that it's a low enough priority it won't make it to the top of the list before I roll out the redesign. If the rendering problems were anything other than the cartoon logo not displaying properly, I might bother. I can tell you I'm going to fix it, but I can also guarantee that it's a low enough priority it won't make it to the top of the list before I roll out the redesign.

]]> By: Craig http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-96467 Craig Tue, 27 Feb 2007 01:26:14 +0000 http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/24/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/#comment-96467 It shouldn't be difficult or complex to make your page render properly in Opera ;) It shouldn't be difficult or complex to make your page render properly in Opera ;)

]]> By: J Wynia http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-96017 J Wynia Sun, 25 Feb 2007 17:50:35 +0000 http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/24/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/#comment-96017 Exactly. And, those tasks that are difficult *because* of their complexity are the nastiest of all to estimate. Estimation is the most hateful task in software development, bar none. This distinction doesn't make the estimation much easier, but does help focus the discussion when objections arise. Exactly. And, those tasks that are difficult *because* of their complexity are the nastiest of all to estimate.

Estimation is the most hateful task in software development, bar none. This distinction doesn't make the estimation much easier, but does help focus the discussion when objections arise.

]]> By: Ed Kohler http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-95795 Ed Kohler Sun, 25 Feb 2007 00:43:14 +0000 http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2007/02/24/the-difference-between-difficult-and-complicated/#comment-95795 Great analysis. The nice thing about difficult tasks is they're generally easier to predict a timeline for. I could tell you with certainty that I can lose 10 pounds in 2 months, or run a marathon in under 4 hours in 3 months since both are just a matter of focus and time. Complex tasks, on the other hand, can vary tremendously in time based on the quality of guesses made throughout the process. Great analysis. The nice thing about difficult tasks is they're generally easier to predict a timeline for. I could tell you with certainty that I can lose 10 pounds in 2 months, or run a marathon in under 4 hours in 3 months since both are just a matter of focus and time.

Complex tasks, on the other hand, can vary tremendously in time based on the quality of guesses made throughout the process.

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